I MUST not have made myself very clear in my earlier post on China policy, as my colleague at Free Exchange says he doesn't understand what I was saying. So let me try to make it clearer: I don't buy the argument that China is hamstrung in its ability to make trade or currency policy by its citizens' nationalism. Its citizens' interests are a different matter.
The argument that retaliatory actions against another country are futile because they will only anger that country's nationalist constituents is an argument with roots in fields like human rights and nuclear non-proliferation. In those contexts it's a very strong argument. In fields like human rights, freedom of expression and rule of law, or on issues like Tibet, there is virtually nothing outsiders can do that will affect internal Chinese policy, and while America cannot be seen to condone gross abuses, taking aggressive stances is generally unproductive. The perception by both leaders and the general public is that outsiders have no business interfering in these issues.
Trade disputes are different. They involve credible interests on the part of the importing countries, which the exporting countries must and do take seriously. Ultimately, it's our money. There's no way to pretend that the importing country has "no business" intervening in a trade issue. So trade disputes just don't generate the same kinds of resentment against outside interference as human-rights or security disputes. Yes, the exporting country's public generally sees trade actions as part of a scheme by foreigners to keep them down, but that resentment mostly gets filed away and doesn't much affect government policy decisions. When America or the EU imposes anti-dumping tariffs on Chinese shrimp or shoes, China does not issue diatribes against imperialism or retaliate directly; it takes its case to the WTO. Blanket tariffs on the entire range of Chinese exports would of course be a far more serious matter. However, the case for such tariffs is far more convincing than that for narrow anti-dumping tariffs. The IMF articles of agreement prohibit currency manipulation for the sake of gaining trade advantage, and the IMF believes China to be substantially undervaluing its currency.
I think these points by my colleague are the crux of the disagreement:
If we're willing to attribute sophistication to China's leaders, which we should be, then we should assume that:
- They understand the argument in favour of a stronger RMB
- They understand the impact of China's currency policy on political attitudes in America
- They understand how such attitudes could generate a trade backlash against China
The fact that they're reluctant to revalue given the above should tell us something about the freedom of movement that Beijing has. And respect aside, I'm not sure what pushing aggressively for something China is this reluctant to do is supposed to accomplish.
I'm not sure that China's leaders think that political attitudes in America are likely to lead to a serious trade backlash. Chinese officials know that America is concerned enough to talk about RMB revaluation, year in, year out, but so far experience shows that America is not concerned enough to actually do anything about it. This suggests that we do not really consider it much of a problem, and mostly wish to use the issue as a rhetorical club with which to beat China in the international arena. And that really would be an infuriating way to behave. If America actually considers that an undervalued RMB isn't much of a problem (because it benefits American consumers and American companies with manufacturing operations in China as much as it hurts American manufacturers based domestically), but continues to moan about the undervalued RMB in international forums to excuse its own poor fiscal behaviour and economic performance, then I could see why Chinese leaders would have little patience with that.
But if America thinks the undervalued RMB really is a problem, both because of its effects on American workers, its effects on America's macroeconomic imbalances, and its global contribution to instability; and if America thinks that blanket tariffs on Chinese imports would help correct those imbalances in the absence of revaluation, then absent some other convincing argument against them, America should implement such tariffs and seek agreement with other importing countries on harmonising them. That this will make a nationalist Chinese public angry is not much of an argument against doing so. To get more deeply into the weeds, it's clearly true that with China having re-prioritised growth over stability in the context of the global recession, local government officials and Party cadres are going to be opposed to RMB revaluation or anything else that interferes with their ability to report back high growth figures from their provinces, and forestall embarrassing factory closures and unrest. This is the clearest sense in which Beijing's "freedom of movement" is likely limited. But if you accept that RMB undervaluation is a major problem and is indistinguishable from broad export subsidies, then to say that America should do nothing to respond to it is to say that we should run a trade deficit and put our own manufacturers at a disadvantage to help maintain political stability and the popularity of the government and Communist Party in industrial regions of China. That's where it seems to me that we would be taking responsibility for something that is none of our business. China is responsible for its own internal politics, and is quite capable of handling them.
When I say "absent some other convincing argument against them", I have in mind arguments like "WTO rules do not consider currency manipulation to constitute export subsidies, so American retaliatory tariffs would violate WTO rules." Or "this will set off a cascade of tariffs by various countries on grounds much flimsier than China's currency manipulation." Or "China will retaliate, not just with counter-tariffs against American exports, but with Russian-style legal and administrative attacks on American businesses inside China, including asset seizures and arrests; and the damage will far outweigh any gains from counterbalancing RMB undervaluation." Those are all convincing arguments.



Readers' comments
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Having read all the posts now, the common theme seems to be trees not forests. It is insane to suggest that all can be solved if the Chinese revalue and bring domestic consumption levels up closer to those in the west.
Chinese (in fairness, same could be said for any highly-populated developing country) consumption at anything approaching Western levels would devastate the environment, accelerate the depletion of non-renewable resources, and drive the prices for commodities well beyond the affordability of the low and middle classes worldwide. Nobody would be worried about currencies at that point.
If anything can be done to create a future of prosperity and peace for all the world's people, that magic thing is an orderly population reduction. Reducing labor surpluses will drive up the value of labor to achieve living wage standards. Reduced strain on water, energy and living natural resources have obvious benefits. And less crowded nations are less apt to pursue policies of lebensraum against their neighbors.
True, few are willing to bear the evolutionary "burden" of family planning. And there are all kinds of moral/religious imperatives that will have to be reconciled with a global one-child policy. But lower population levels are in the cards either way, it's just the difference between descending by stairs or a long plunge from a high window.
If China elects to take more direct action to punish American investments in China, then we could very well enter the end game of Sino-American cooperation (frankly, boo-hoo since it's been pretty one-sided when considering the long-term effects).
American nationalism is not a trifle either, and though it has been both tempered and otherwise directed by the war on [islamic] terrorism, a cold war with China would be an easier and more familiar paradigm for our populace to digest and embrace.
Of course, conflict is pretty much inevitable in this finite world, between the world's largest per-capita consumer and the world's most ambitious consumer. Ponder only the respective capabilities of those two actors, and which camp the rest of the world's people might fall into, at the moment fur really starts to fly.
Currency manipulation is a waste of time that China engages in rather than governing. It has minimal effect on much of anything except taking up ink in the financial press.
A trade war, advocated by the Krugmanites, could very likely trigger a Depression and possibly a shooting war. I am against it.
JBP
john powers - have you lost your sense of proportion? Krugman is just a columnist.
The musings of one opinion writer are inconsequential compared to the huge damage done by China's currency manipulation. Don't let your vitriol against one writer overwhelm your good judgment!
FC,
Of course, but that should not be dictated by Krugman. He is simply trying to stir up anti-trade voters because he is a partisan hack.
China floating its currency on the world market does nothing to stop Krugman's demagoguery. He'll just find another group to blame for America's perceived ills.
JBP
estumator, john powers, et.al. The solution is simple. China should let its currency float freely. Like everyone else does. Then this whole issue becomes moot.
eroteme: I'm against human rights abuses, I was just saying pragmatically that our ability to influence it is weak.
And I don't have a soul ;)
The Pettis article is more sane than Krugmans ravings. But he still falls into the two price fallacy
Commenting on the effect of a revaluation of the Yuan on commodity trading...
"So to the extent that companies or individuals are stockpiling iron, copper, chemicals, or anything similar, they will also take an immediate loss."
Pettis seems to think that US and European traders who import from China get some kind of discount on commodities purchased. They don't. The world market price for copper is pretty much the world market price for copper. The negotiated price between buyer and seller is already ignoring the official currency exchange rates.
JBP
back in 2005, Americans were talking about a blanket 25% tariff against Chinese imports. China then revalued RMB up 25% against USD, and now those same Americans are talking about 30% blanket tariff.
I mean, care to do some math?
Therefore, there is little incentive for Chinese government to revalure RMB further. The reasoning goes like, what if we revalue RMB by 50% this time, would those Americans demand a 50% tariff next election year(2012)?
Before you say another word on this topic or read another article on it, read http://mpettis.com/2010/03/how-will-an-rmb-revaluation-affect-china-the-...
Michael Pettis teaches at Peking University.
China promised to float its currency when it was admitted to the WTO, just "not now"--we'll do it later when it is easier on us. It is never the right time.
In answer to the comment of Jer-X
"In my opinion, genocide must be prevented, but genocide is different from human rights abuses, and I agree with the blogger that we are generally powerless in that arena".
Genocide is different only in matter of degree, the murder of one individual is equally as bad as the murder of many. The glorious achievement of western civilization is the understanding that every single person is valuable and not expendable and equal in law. One major problem with the globalization of the world economy is that it has become evident that western capitalists are amoral in that the only good is making money and the only bad is losing money. There are many reasons for this not the least the decline of religious belief in the West and the rise of places like Harvard Business School where very bright young people are taught that they are the future of America and that there are no rules except what you can get away with.
China is not a democracy, it is ruled by a ruthless and effectively hereditary oligarchy who have modernized an old fashioned dictatorship and pretend they are the people. They know it is all a lie and are very sensitive about this being known or pointed out hence the total control of all information and the silencing of internal dissidents. It is time that the West did and said more about individual human rights in China even if the price is reduced access to Chinese markets, if we do not, we will lose something much more valuable - our own soul. I also do believe that naming and shaming the human rights violations of the Chinese Communist Party will make them less brazen about it with time. At the moment they don't care since they know that western capitalists have ensured that western governments will say and do nothing. Yes, the west needs China, but they also need us.
UAT
No one is going to give him the official exchange rate. There are some really good traders in China in my experience, and they would have noticed this a long time ago. rather than reading the New York Times and the Economist for financial information.
FC,
Rather than ideology, it just reality setting in. I paid 7 different vendors this week in China, and none of them would re-negotiate when I told them I wanted a discount because they were not paying their workers a Krugman approved wage.
JBP
AtLeastReferenceFacts - you're conflating a whole bunch of issues in order to try to justify your erroneous conclusion. The simple fact is that you can't build global free trade on the premise that it's ok for countries to arbitrarily determine their currency's exchange rate. If you knew anything about International Economics you'd know that "beggar-thy-neigbor" is a lose-lose proposition and has to be stopped. Not because I advocate protectionism but the opposite: Globalization is good, but only if everyone plays by the rules.
john powers - if I thought you were capable of understanding currency manipulation I'd explain it, honestly I would. Unfortunately ideology has colonized so much of your brain that there are no braincells left with which to grasp new concepts, so I won't even try.
JBP, I'm trying _so_ hard to understand this, but I'm failing. Please help my liberal artsy brain.
A Chinese businessman wants an oz of gold, running $1800 at the moment. Is it fair to say he has to pay in dollars? When he tries to sell some of his RMB for dollars, the Chinese businessman finds that no one will take less than 10 yuan per dollar, since that's the deal China's offering. So he spends his 18,000 RMB to get an oz of gold worth $1800 at the moment.
Seconds later he's got buyer's remorse and decides to sell it, and now he's got $1800. Since China is still offering that 10 yuan for a buck deal, he sells the dollars to them and he's back to 18,000 RMB.
What do I have wrong, here?
So in the Krugman world of FC there must be some room for Chinese traders who suffer buying gold for $1800 an oz and then turning around and selling it for $600 an oz.
Crafty, very crafty, these Chinese businessmen I have heard so much about.
JBP
No cognate, only partly correct. Yes China uses funds from their trade surplus to buy US treasuries, but they are not the only buyers, US treasuries are generally quite popular with investors. So we're not beholden to China. If they stopped buying treasuries tomorrow we'd be ok.
Chinese manufacturers sell us stuff for less than we would pay a US manufacturer because the Chinese govt manipulates their currency. In the process the US manufacturer goes out of business and its employees lose their jobs and start claiming unemployment benefits, adding to our budget deficit.
If the US manufacturer was less productive I'd say tough cookies - creative destruction...invisible hand...and all that. But when your competitors are being subsidized by unfair currency manipulation then I think you'll agree it's a different matter. The currency manipulation has to be stopped, it's gone on for far too long.
Eroteme: The Allies knew the Germans were disenfranchising Jews, but knew nothing of their extermination until they came upon the camps in the last year of the war. They didn't condone it once they knew about it, but it is anachronistic to think the Allies fought to protect the Jews. If Germany hadn't invaded Poland, then perhaps yes, it would have been like other genocides that go unnoticed until it is too late.
Of course your argument ends with 'nothing SHOULD be done about it?' which is much different then asking if something WOULD have been done. In my opinion, genocide must be prevented, but genocide is different from human rights abuses, and I agree with the blogger that we are generally powerless in that arena.
I reject and condemn FiscalConservative's comment about the Republican party, given that several of my good friends, including my dad, consider themselves Republicans, and I consider them all intelligent, good people.
That being said, I really find it funny that Forsize wrote:
"is your hatred so intense that in *non-related* threads you call people bigots?" (emphasis mine)
In condemning FiscalConservative's mass accusation of bigotry on the part of Republicans, Forsize had the foresight to specify in which blog posts is it poor form to accuse a large political group of bigotry.
It's like me going, "Only a loser would accuse me of being racist on a blog post that doesn't mention Strom Thurmond or Jesse Jackson!"
So.. wrote:
"That sounds tad bit too reasonable for an election year. Can't have that."
Agreed. If you're a politician trying to animate a crowd worried about the rise of China, do you say,
"If I'm elected, I will file a petition with the World Trade Organization to begin a bureaucratic process to shift the rules governing currency manipulation such that the governing trade body can investigate the renmibi and rule that the Chinese government should pursue revaluation."
OR
"If China doesn't do what we say, we'll punish them with tariffs, and all of our lost manufacturing jobs will come back!"