THOSE who complain that Mitt Romney's privilege has left him insensitive to the workaday problems of the common man fail to consider that the man has apparently struggled for his whole life with the curse of awful timing. There he was Saturday, just days after Barack Obama was garlanded with praise for his surprise endorsement of gay marriage, giving a commencement address at Jerry Falwell's Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. That must have been about the last place a candidate would want to turn up if he was hoping to gently waffle about his views on social issues, as Mr Romney has been wont to do.
The speech was an effort by Mr Romney, a Mormon, to bolster relations with non-Mormon Christians (or, to be precise, that subset of Christians who represent the "religious right"—as Timothy Noah aptly pointed out in March, the category of "Christian" encompasses nearly 80% of Americans). Polls show that a considerable number of people profess to be leery of voting for a Mormon; the wariness is especially pronounced among self-identified evangelical Christians, a demographic that has heavily favoured Republicans in recent elections.
This is actually the second major address Mr Romney has given on the subject of his religion. In 2007, while campaigning for the Republican nomination, he offered a speech that explicitly referenced John F. Kennedy's 1960 address on his Catholicism. In that speech, Mr Romney, like JFK before him, sought to reassure voters who were worried about electing a president whose religion includes a strong, centralised, earthly authority: "Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions."
The fact that Mr Romney became the nominee this year might be taken as evidence that concern about his religion has faded. This time around, Mr Romney focused on voters who were suspicious of Mormonism's beliefs rather than its governing structure. "People of different faiths, like yours and mine, sometimes wonder where we can meet in common purpose, when there are so many differences in creed and theology," he said. "Surely the answer is that we can meet in service, in shared moral convictions about our nation stemming from a common worldview."
Evangelical leaders applauded the speech. More generally, as Brad Knickerbocker notes at the Christian Science Monitor, Mr Romney's overall outreach effort has been "apparently successful". Sceptical though they may be of a Mormon, there are bigger bogeymen. I think back to Richard Land, the head of the Southern Baptist Convention, chuckling at an appearance at the National Press Club in DC last autumn, explaining that nothing unites evangelicals like Barack Obama. If values voters were going to undo Mr Romney, they were going to do it in the primary.
So Saturday's speech was of questionable necessity, and it could come back to haunt Mr Romney. First, as Ross Douthat noted in the New York Times, this year's social battles—over contraception, over gay marriage—have resulted in a lot of good press for the president, and are probably less salient to moderate voters than the half-hearted recovery. This speech means another round of cultural commentary, rather than a shift to the economy or entitlement reform or any of the issues where Mr Romney might feel more comfortable.
Secondly, this speech, with its vaguely teleological cast—"from the beginning, this nation trusted in God, not man"—sounds like something Rick Santorum would have said. (In fact, Mr Romney gave a polite but passing reference to Mr Santorum in the speech.) Possible etch-a-sketchery aside, the argument in question is a problematic one. That is, Mr Romney, like Mr Santorum before him, is suddenly conflating the "Judeo-Christian tradition" with American culture writ large, which is dubious from a historical perspective as well as, perhaps, a constitutional one. Here's Mr Romney:
Harvard historian David Landes devoted his lifelong study to understanding why some civilizations rise, and why others falter. His conclusion: Culture makes all the difference. Not natural resources, not geography, but what people believe and value. Central to America's rise to global leadership is our Judeo-Christian tradition, with its vision of the goodness and possibilities of every life.
It's not particularly contentious to say that culture matters. And Mr Romney does go on to cite aspects of American culture that most of us would agree with: "personal responsibility, the dignity of work, the value of education, the merit of service, devotion to a purpose greater than self, and, at the foundation, the pre-eminence of the family." Those are laudable values, that is, and American ones, but they're not the intellectual property of Jews and Christians. Nor should a religious voter wish it otherwise, really. As Mr Romney says, the "Christian conscience" can be a force for good, but as he said in 2007, "we separate church and state affairs in this country, and for good reason." After years of struggling with the politics of being a Mormon, Mr Romney has apparently allayed concerns among conservative Christians. But he may have found a new way to aggravate moderates.
(Photo credit: AFP)



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Who is running Romney's campaign? Jerry Lewis?
THE RETURN OF NERO?
We have never experienced a President holding the highest office in the land with little or no interest in its citizens. At long last in spite of his marketing efforts we now seem to have one. At least thirty million workers have far less job hours available to them than in times past, presenting us with an aggregate of some thirty million citizens hurting without gainful employment. Rampant crime exists in many of our cities, a pathetic need for national leadership, food prices are continually increasing, teenage unemployment is at an all-time high. We are now leaderless as a nation with the continuing saga being perceived as a joke globally.
Chinese, Asian employment, oil production and drilling are doing well. Industrial production on the part of many of our neighbors is putting us to shame. At a time of horrendous economic news the President wants to increase taxes on the wealthy job creators among us. This move makes absolutely no sense for the nation economically. We are experiencing little national leadership from the White House. Our nation is being destroyed. Everyone in the Obama administration from the President on down currently seems to have their eyes and minds on the 2012 elections and how the Republicans may well gain control of the Congress and the White House.
This emphasis on retaining position frankly is not the issue, it's a diversion from the real mission. The true task before the nation is to create jobs and return employment from the years of international trade adventurism that has decimated the American middle class. Federal and state taxes need to be cut for those corporations willing to accept assigned quotas for job creation in this nation. A major action think tank composed of corporate CEO's and normal workers needs to be tasked with immediately addressing this coming possibility of depression with jobs. Yet the visionless President fails to see the problem.
Never have so many political leaders of both parties been in a stupor of this depth. Americans hurting, workers looking for work-White House hosting lavish parties, unemployment being talked about nationwide in coffee shops, lack on his part of support for Israel, all that is lacking is the fiddle upon which the President can play. Has Nero returned?
Hope and change must be immediately replaced with the phrase action now and jobs immediately. It's past time for action, the President’s words mean nothing since actions still speak louder than words. The President needs to lead but it’s obvious he has lost his way. He has failed, let’s give Romney a chance this election.
Dr. Alan G. Phillips,
Bloomington, IL
Mr Romney is a leader in a cult. This cult defines logic, hence the classification. Anything he says or does is suspect based on the aforementioned affiliation. Eloquent, earnest, polished, well rehearsed politician no doubt, but not a leader or person possessing a shred of integrity and intellectual prowess. As an American I'm ashamed my fellow citizens are falling so easily to this packaging. Oh wait, same intellects that swoon to religious nonsense and reality shows...sigh. God bless, err, help the USA. Take Care!
Liberty University???? No Physics curriculum, no major in Chemistry, no evolution. Not exactly a true university. What is Romney trying to communicate here?
Liberty University is adding majors in various curriculum all the time. They just added a Law degree, for instance.
There are courses in Chemistry as well supporting their bachelors in Nursing program, just not a degree in it...yet.
As for "no evolution"...that is something Liberty takes pride in, good luck with convincing them otherwise. There is no theory that has less scientific support anyway (see basic laws of thermodynamics).
And there you are wrong. Evolution is a robust theory with lots of evidence to support it and not one item that refutes it. Even creationists don't use the 2nd law as an argument against evolution. You've got some learning to do.
USA succeeded by genociding hundreds of nations.
Despite Moses era events, I do not feel that genocide is an appropriate Christian activity.
"genociding hundreds of nations", what? Normally I would not bother but your stupidity warrants redress (Google it). Your comment is neither factual or relevant. Your ignorance is a prime example of the greatest threat to mankind. You are walking the planet in a man's body and an infant's mind. Please look into your heart and remember the message of all religions is to love, and then take the damn chains off your mind. Take care!
sorry to be the one to tell you, but the usa government really did wipe out all but 127 of the hundreds of nations that were here before us. This is the actual us government figure as to the number of nations with at least one living member.
We would go into indian areas from one side, the braves would come out to fight, and then another group would kill the women and children.
I wish this was just made up, but it really happened.
This Mitt Romney character is so far out of connection with reality, that he looks like ET. Are you going to phone home some time Mitt? Would you like a Marconi wireless system dating from the 1900s? On what spaceship did you appear on this planet?
There are lots of political hacks and poodles of special interests who support this guy. But the only reason he is the Republican nominee is because of political money. What about Ron Paul? He makes more sense than any other candidates around.
I support your point.
"So Saturday's speech was of questionable necessity, and it could come back to haunt Mr Romney. First, as Ross Douthat noted in the New York Times, this year's social battles—over contraception, over gay marriage—have resulted in a lot of good press for the president..."
I would argue that the press regarding contraception mandates and gay marriage has not been overwhelmingly good. A few of the most egregiously biased news sources are still cheerleading for Mr. Obama (including the New York Times), but the less biased ones have reported otherwise. Firstly, it became clear in polling that the majority of Americans do not support mandates which trample religious and conscience objections. Secondly, it has become abundantly clear that while there are some questionable polls showing "a majority support gay marriage", the only polls that really matter --votes-- have indicated otherwise... every single time. Even in left-leaning states like Oregon and California, the voters rejected gay marriage. In centrist and right-leaning states, the votes were overwhelming. The campaigns to define marriage as between 1 man and 1 woman have been highly successful, even when they were massively outspent by the gay lobby. Obama has also started to draw a lot of criticism within the African-American community for his public endorsement of same-sex marriage.
From my perspective here in the US, listening to US news sources, far from all of the press has been positive for the President. I would hope that The Economist is not turning into one of Mr. Obama's openly biased cheerleaders. If I wanted to read Obama campaign ads masquerading as journalism, I'd pick up the New York Times.
May God grant America a president who is:
- fiscally conservative(no more bailouts)
- courageous enough to strike down the 2nd and 14th amendments(right to bear arms and birthright citizenship), make semi-automatic guns illegal. No more automatic citizenship for babies of non-citizens.
- courageous enough to strike down any and all forms of race based affirmative action
- pro-life
- seeks to shrink rather than expand the military
- strong on restricting illegal immigration, curbing rampant abuse in immigration system and use of work visas by Indian outsourcers
- really fix the healthcare system by shifting tax deduction for healthcare to individuals, and making a truely affordable national healthcare plan that covers catastrophic care for all citizens
- fix the welfare system to curb abuse by illegals with anchor babies
- fix education by sending kids who fail academically to vocational schools instead of regular high schools
And then, I don't care really if he opposes or is pro gay-marriage. It's just not as important as all the above issues.
Whoops I meant pro-CHOICE. Which is why I can't see eye-to-eye with religious conservatives. I am strongly pro-choice yet am opposed to gay marriage.
You actually want the President to strike down the 14th Amendment as well as the 2nd Amendment? So, you believe that the President of the United States somehow has the power to overturn part of the Bill of Rights and return non-whites to slavery. I am not sure which it more shocking, your ignorance of the power of the Presidency or your willingness to publish a desire to overthrow the Constitution.
You actually scare me.
Thankfully, the list is sufficiently incoherent (cognitively) to relieve and remind me that this isn't the work of a 'rational' voter.
Which maybe should scare me even more.
Mitt Romney could fart the St. Louis Blues and it would have more relevance than 98% of the drivel from O'Bogus. We want him gone and we will see him gone.
Romney For President - 2012
This may be a mistake. Romney looks like a poodle led on a leash to serve people liie himself. People who send their funds overseas to avoid taxes while the USA government deficit increases. Tax cuts for the rich anyone? (sarcastic laughter).
14.9% tax rate on incomes of over 20 million dollars a year while people who earn one thousand times less pay twice his tax rate. You want this crook and his mafias running America? God help you.
God help America if that dissembling, scheming disaster wins again.
This article is incorrect, and its conclusions are based on the bias of its authors. Obama's gay marriage stance is a political loser, and Romney's stance at Liberty University clarifies his position and is a political winner. Those pundits claiming to know what motivates the nation's moderates are inaccurately assuming that moderates will shift along with elite opinion in support of gay marriage. This may be true in the UK, but it will not be true in the USA. Mr. Romney's position (as Mr. Santorum's) on the Judeo-Christian tradition in America is historically correct, and it is this article's skepticism that is historically dubious.
I thought we didn't like east coast liberals. Why did he quote a harvard prof
Obama has the one degree from Harvard--Romney has two and his children have three.
Who is telling you whom to like, Fox News? If you are a abig boy or girl, you should be able to decide that for yourself. Anyway, we ARE east coast liberals and we like us very much.
As for quoting a Harvard professor, who would you rather hear from -- a high school drop out?
From a global perspective, the Romney doctrine is not quite relevant on matters pertaining to international environment, and I do hope that the American people will be sensible enough to re-elect Mr. Obama.
I think we will be sensible enough not to re-elect Mr. Obama, due to his failed economic policies, and social and big-government policies that are equally atrocious.
The Chinese Communist Party is hoping that Mitt Romney, a George W Bush lite (elitist background, intellectual lightweight) is elected. GWB's tenure caused the worst recession since WW2, and 5000 American deaths in Iraq, 3000 due to Hurricane Katrina and 3000 in 9/11. Also, the largest buildup of government, a conversion from budget surplus to a massive deficit, etc.
Please explain how Bush caused 3000 deaths due to Hurricane Katrina.
GWB did not cause the recession. Facts matter, not world-view inspired opinions. He can take some fault for it having occured along with the financial melt-down. But to be strictly fair, the financial meltdown was largely caused by policies which were compromises with the Democratic Party and liberals in general, in particular the over-regulation of businesses and the mortgage market, and, this is noteworthy, the crisis was largely dealt with and we were on track to end the recession in early 2009. Obama deserves credit for managing the response underway, but he torpedoed the economic recovery with his stimulus and growth of government policies.
As for the rest. Yes, there were casualties - but that happens in war. You forget - a 41-nation coalition removed a dictator, restored Iraqi self-determination, defeated al-Qaeda on their self-proclaimed "central front" and rolled back jihadist movements while eliminating one source (possibly more) of WMD. It was messy, but wars are.
Hurricane Katrina: you're kidding, right? GWB is responsible for a hurricane? Even if you can blame him for the first 4-5 days response, the follow through was awesome (and btw, it was 1100 deaths, not 3000).
Sep 11 - how is that GWB's fault? If you can blame anyone - it would be the previous administration. That being said, GWB's response to 9/11 was exactly right, and the world has benefitted ever since. Liberals feeling queasy about it is irrelevant - since their own freedoms is the beneficiary of the US response. Finally, can you imagine the mess if Al Gore had been President that day???
Nothing like facts to derail liberal revisionist histories.
Funny that you bring up facts. Doesn't GWB not believe in evolution?
GWB inherited a budget surplus, and converted that to a massive deficit. And added two wars to that, without raising taxes, which has never been done before. Strike Two.
If the budget was still in a surplus, a massive stimulus would have wiped out the recession in minutes.
I checked the Dow Jones when Clinton took over - it was 3,500. When GWB took over from Clinton, It was 10,000. It was 7,500 when he left. under Obama it is now around 12,000. Who is more business friendly?
Bush appointed an incompetent moron as the FEMA chief. Like Truman said, the buck stops at the Oval Office. So he is responsible for the Hurricane Katrina deaths.
It's sweet when you point out the "it happens in war" routine. What about the 200,000 Iraqi civilians who died? Iraq was invaded illegally( even if Saddam was a complete a-hole). There were Japanese leaders who were executed for war crimes like invading the US without a legitimate reason. If justice is blind......
I agreed with GWB approach to Afghanistan. Even if he didn't chase OBL (by not sending enough troops to Afghanistan, which allowed the Taliban insurgency to rise again).
Nice. But these "facts" are suspect. Let's go over them:
1) Yes, GWB inherited a surplus, but dealing with the recession and the war turned that around. Tax increases would only have made it worse (as recent economic history has shown). He is to blame for increasing the size of government and federal spending, but give credit where it's due - those were policies promoted by those of a liberal persuasion.
2) President Clinton does deserve credit for sustaining the Reagan Revolution - er, well, he needed the Republican Congress for that (he almost wrecked it in 1993). As for the DOW, seriously- that's only one measure, and hardly the least important. It reached 14000 under GWB, and only the timing of the financial crisis led to its drop. Don't forget that Pres. Obama sustained Pres. Bush's policies which were getting us out of the financial crisis (unfortunately, Obama also sustained the recession). President Bush's policies led to record low unemployment and large increases in GDP. In fact, the only reason we have survived Obama's atrocious economic and spending policies are because of the success of the Bush years. As I said, facts matter. Honest analysis does also.
3) Yes, I agree, President Bush's choice for FEMA was poor. This isn't even remotely linked to the deaths in Katrina. Not only is such a connection illogical, it betrays an unfair bias.
4) The idea that the Iraq war was illegal has been thrown out of court at least 9 times (and that's only those that I know of). It's an absurd position. Why is it illegal? Here's why it's legal: it was ordered by the President, and authorized by Congress. That's it. It's legal. This is just an accusation that the anti-war crowd feels (and wishes were true). As for the international angle, it's not relevant to US law (especially since the US acted within it's constitutional obligations to treaties), besides which, the 41-nation coalition was the largest put together since WW2. Nix on the "illegal" argument.
4) "Sweet" huh. You don't like my bringing up that casualties happen in war? That is oh-so "routine". It doesn't invalidate the argument. The war was legal and justified. First of all, civilian casualties were closer to 100K, not 200K (and not the million or so the anti-war crowd parrots). Secondly, it was overwhelmingly caused by militants, terrorists, in other words - the typical muslim and jihadist responses in that part of the world. Nor do you give credit to the billions of dollars spent, along with tremendous changes to US procedures which were specificially designed to limit civilian casualties. In this respect, the US performance is the best ever recorded in world history.
Separately, were you aware that 4.2 million people were killed, imprisoned, exiled, or oppressed out of an Iraqi population of 25 million during the 17 first years of Saddam's reign. About 1/6 of the Iraqi population. That means, that Iraqi civilians suffered higher casualties during Saddam's peace than during the height of the Iraq war.
5) Yes, I blame the administration for not wrapping up Al Qaeda at Tora Bora (admittedly trying to limit the US footprint and naively trusting Afghans). That being said, it's not true that he didn't chase OBL.
As for whether GWB not believe in evolution. I don't know what he believes, but one may assume that he does not. Not sure how that is relevant.
So - facts matter, and so does how one applies them. The arguments presented are weak, lack facts, or do not follow. If one is not guided by the facts, then presenting a case to you is a waste of time.
To further Mr. Canales' point on the legality of the war... Saddam Hussein never complied with the terms to end Gulf War 1 back in the 1990's. Legally, that war never ended. So in accordance with both the domestic declaration of war and international standards, the war in Iraq to oust Saddam was legal. Does war suck? Yes. That means we should avoid it whenever possible. But that doesn't make it illegal.
Let me start with your point number 4. What you are saying is that the US is not bound by international law. Therefore which country is? The Geneva Convention should be scrapped, along with the UN and its resolutions. The fact remains that the US did not get the Security Council approval for the Iraq War. Even NATO allies, including Europe and Canada, which had participated in the Afghan War, refused to help the US (for which they were vilified). The 41 country coalition included several Pacific Islands with a population less than that of a housing project in Chicago.
Now for your other points. The "Reagan Revolution" included higher taxes and a large deficit. Whereas the "Clinton Revolution" included taxes and a balanced budget. As for the Republican Congress, why couldn't they achieve the same balanced budget under GWB? Also, didn't they have to bend over to Clinton when they caused the government shutdown?
The highest economic growth rates (of above 4%) were during the Clinton era. The figures from the GWB era included higher profits made from (artificial) rises in the housing prices. We know what that caused - a near depression ( as stated by Ben Bernanke, a GWB appointee).
Well, since you bring up the Iraqis who fled under Saddam, over 2 million fled the US established "peace" after 2003.To Syria and Jordan, which were not exactly democratic paradises like Iraq. I am not sure where the 100,000 figure comes from. But the militants/terrorists you speak of, the Mahdi Army, for instance, were aided and abetted by the US military when they invaded Iraq. The most religiously fanatical forces were allowed to govern the country, and large parts of the secular society was frozen out due to their membership of the Baath Party.
Also, Sweden, with about 3 percent of the US population, has accepted the same number of Iraqi refugees as the US. The pro US Iraqis are good enough to die for the US, but not to live among Americans. Do you wonder why American occupation has a very low acceptance rating from the Iraqis? Or why the Iraqis wanted the Americans to leave ASAP.
As for GWB and evolution, its the relationship between him and facts. Just like it was when he famously stated "Mission Accomplished".
Suggest you refer to the memo that James Baker sent to GHB in 1991. He predicted that if American forces followed retreating Iraqis to Baghdad, there would be a civil war, collapse of the country, etc.
I don't really want to continue this, especially since you distort either facts or the analysis of the facts.
Under no circumstances did I say the US is not bound by international law. However, someone of your persuasion always attempts to claim that the US is breaking international law. Under no legitimate reading of the US Constitution, is a Security Council resolution required for the US to go to war. None, Zip, Zero, and if you keep harping on it, then you are just plain dishonest (because you are not stupid).
You don't get to rewrite the history of the 80s and 90s. As I stated earlier, Clinton deserves credit for finally getting around to sustaining the Reagan revolution, with Reagan's policies more or less in place, but only after being forced to do so by the Republican Congress. As for the deficit under GWB, you apparently didn't read my earlier posts. I'm not justifying them, I would have cut government more, but they don't prove what you are saying. Clinton's success was possible because of Reagan. The highest GDP growth rates were Reagan, GWB II, then Clinton. You need more accurate statistics. And as has been pointed out numerous times by much better analysts, Clinton can credit Reagan.
The Mahdi Army is from Sadr Org origin, and not related to the group the US tried to assist. The number of Iraqis who fled was closer to 1 million, AND, they mostly came back right after the surge (I know, I tracked those numbers back then, from Iraq itself). The mortgage crisis was bad, but it was hardly GWBs fault. You're reaching for straws now.
Why Muslim Iraqi's would reject a US occupation is hardly surprising and besides the point (given the manias within the Iraqi and Muslim populations). In any case - I tracked those public reactions too, and throughout the majority of the war, the Iraqi public's position through at least mid-2008 (and probably longer) was they wanted the US to leave, BUT, not just yet. That opinion held for a remarkable amount of time.
That Europe didn't support the US led war in Iraq will always be to their disgrace. I'm not sure they were vilified, but they mostly deserved it if so.
Finally, I presume you imply that Evolution is true, and that GWB's disbelief implies a relationship with the facts. Actually, it is you who has betrayed a lack of knowledge, or acceptance of truth. Evolution is just a theory, with holes so big, and so much of its basis disproven, that there are scientists now who legitimately would call it de-bunked. But it's like global warming, that crowd no longer depends on the science (and are flat out dishonest), it's a religion to them.
Like I said, go with the facts, then analyze them intelligently.
Thank you for your response.
But remember, the economic problems and challenges that began in the US (The Financial Crisis) and now spreading aggressively around the world including my country, began under a Republican president called George Bush Jr. It was the American people who voted overwhelmingly for change. It is impossible for Mr. Obama to solve theses problems in four years. In fact, the US and by extension the World is not sure what to do as these economic woes, which began in both the US and Europe are deemed "Unknown territory" and even the leading business and economic thinkers and experts are very uncertain of what solutions to propose.
I know that Mr. Romney's proposed solutions will leave us all in a much far worse position. He may even open up new military conflicts which the world does not need right now.
However, I believe that the American people are very intelligent and sensible and will re-elect the incumbent President into office. Come late November this year, when Mr. Obama gets re-elected for a second term you will remember my response to your comment.
Well said Seal Team Six. Anyone who does not believe in evolution has lost complete touch with reality.
The mortgage crisis may have had a start in the US, but it is years of big-government policies at the expense of high tax rates and reduced entrepreneurism that have really affected the world economy. Otherwise, I do think your comments are sensible.
I think it will be a tight race, but I expect Mr. Romney to win, and that will be the right choice. You are right in the sense, that we'll remember this conversation. Even if one subscribes to Obama's political and economic ideas, the bottom line is that his policies are driving America off the fiscal cliff with no end in sight. Even if Romney and the Republicans don't have a great plan, they at least have one, one that has a chance to succeed. Obama's plan has zero chance to succeed. Don't forget that his "stimulus" largely torpedoed the economic recovery, in addition to raising the budget deficit.
As for evolution- it's a largely debunked theory. You should get your thinking up-to-date (and in touch with reality).
I will start from the Evolution argument. If evolution and global warming are debunked theories, do you also think that the Sun revolves around the Earth (remember Galileo being forced to recant, Copernicus was hanged), that disease is caused by wrath of God (not germs), etc, etc? People of your persuasion are against science, and share a lot with the Salafists and the Taliban in their opinion about science (and on the right to carry arms).
As for the Reagan era, the unemployment rate was far higher. As it was when GWB left office (8% versus 4% when Clinton left). Also, Reagan raised taxes 11 times. And he famously said that deficits don't matter. So do deficits only matter under Democratic President, and not under Republican ones?
Since the US stock market capitalization is three times higher than the US economy, I reiterate my earlier comment about the DJI at the Reagan/Clinton/GWB era. Also, entrepreneurship, increased massively in the Clinton era, with the internet boom. At the end of the Clinton era, the US was by far number one in GDP size. After 8 years of GWB insanity, China is a close second, and will overtake the US by 2016 in PPP terms, and by 2025 in absolute terms. The Chinese car market is already 50% larger than the US.
The Iraqi insurgency began in full earnest when the Iraqi army was disbanded, which fueled the Sunni insurgency. The Mahdi Army was helped by the US army, along with the SCIRI and Dawa Party and the INC.
As for constitutional requirement for war, no country's constitution requires it to get UN approval to start a war. The US is not exceptional in this regard. Does that negate international law?
Let's remember how the Iraq War started. It was over the weapons of mass destruction. Were there any? No. So war was declared without reason. A 100,000 civilians (according to you; over 200k according to me) died for no reason. Milosevic and Karazdic had better reason for war than GWB, and where are they now?
Interesting, some what inaccurate, though typical.
1) That evolution and global warming are essentially debunked are scientific arguments. You are presuming (as liberals typically do) that I'm a creationist, or believe all kinds of nonsense. This is why serious debate is difficult with liberals who seek to delegitimize and paint others with a broad brush.
2) Reagan was changing the economy from its decades-long misdirection. Thus, it's not surprising that unemployment would improve in the years after he left, if the economy was managed correctly. I'm giving him credit throughout the Clinton and Bush years. You did not.
3) Under GWB, unemployment (below 4.3% and essentially unmeasurable) dropped to a full point below what it was in the Clinton years. They were up because of the recession and the financial crisis, but let's not ignore that in a short period (the last 6 months), he had the country moving in the right direction (we would have been out of the recession in Mar 2009 until it was aborted by Obama).
4) Yes, disbanding the Iraqi Army was a mistake. The US didn't assist the Mahdi Army (any assistance that reached them was incidental and insignificant).
5) WMD were found (and I know people who found them), not to mention mothballed Nuclear, Biological and Chemical programs. Even if not found in the expected amounts, there were plenty of other more important reasons to go to war.
6) Not sure what you mean by negating international law. The US war wasn't illegal, even in international law. Even if it were, International Law not in compliance with the Constitution doesn't apply. I refer you to the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution - which elaborate US independence of action.
7) Milosevic and Karadzic may have had a right to go to war to achieve objectives, but they did so in inhumane ways without legal legitimacy. They violated not just laws but human rights. GWB did neither. He fought the war in the most humane way possible, far superseding legal requirements, and expending significant funds and tactical methods in order to be as humane as reasonably possible (which you can admit is difficult in war).
Some of these issues simply have differences of opinion. However, that the war was legal is a basic fact, and not subject to opinion.
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your response.
Before I respond, as two professionals, let us agree to disagree. You do hold some very strong views on issues like evolution and politics. Even if I do not completely agree with you, I do uphold your right to have and opinion and I hope you will do the same for me.
Inferring from our few exchanges I guess that we reside in two different geographical points, and perhaps from different religions. (I am Hindu). However, I sincerely believe that despite these differences, we can find some common ground to express concerns about the grueling challenges that the world is confronting.
I urge you to understand that we all live in a global village and if America sneezes, my nation will certainly catch a cold or a more serious ailment. This is due to the fact that our economies are strongly interlinked. A President of your country must come to terms with these facts (even though he/she will also have to fix domestic policies initially) and create a more balanced and economically enabling environment throughout the world.
I do hope that you will understand these concerns.
Thank you, this is well put, and I can certainly return your respect.
It is true that what happens in the US has worldwide effects, and thus, a US President with any moral sense, should at least consider those effects. As you may have ascertained, I have significant concerns that the world often tries to constrain the US in ways that are wrong-headed (and many Americans feel the same way). An honest person could disagree with me on many of those issues. But I concede the point, the US Government must be cognizant of how we are linked. My personal opinion is that the US Congress is far more egregious in ignoring our globally linked responsibilities than President's are.
Btw, two countries that I have a lot of respect for as they gain in importance are India and Brazil. I think the US would be wise to not interfere with their growth in power, but instead prove to be a friend. I am, as an American, more wary of Russia and China (they don't have democratic systems that provide a check and balance), and South Africa is overrated in importance (that's judgmental but it's what I think).
In addition, actually, I'm not so fixed in my opinion on evolution (or even politics). However, I'm sure that in accordance with the scientific method, evolution remains a theory rather than a law.
In the Land of the Free Lawyers and the Home of the Brave Bankers, Parochial Politics and Partisan Power is mainly a matter of Race, Religion and Rank.
when I read all this religious rubbish, I really have to wonder whether democracy is such a good idea. Maybe there should be a test, and only those who dont believe in God can vote.
what a wonderful world that would be
I agree but with a caveat. Only those who do believe in God get to vote. Clueless atheists need not apply. Now that would lead to almost instantaneous improvement in the world.
This is the sort of hateful rhetoric that does absolutely nothing to improve political discourse. The US was founded by a bunch of men who, whether "Christian" or not, almost all believed in something resembling God. They built a nation that has become the most powerful in the world. Neat trick for a bunch of inferior people believing in "religious rubbish", as you would characterize it. I find it interesting that the more Godless American society has become in recent history, the weaker the US has become on the world stage.
Perhaps it is people such as yourself who should not be allowed to vote, in the best interests of the country's future?
Yes, you are right. I was being sarcastic in response to An Smaointeoir, and responding "in-kind". All should have an equal vote.
My apologies for the lack of clarity. I was not responding to you, Mr. Canales, my reply was directed at An Smaointeoir.
But it seems there is an inherent conflict of interest, if you believe in God. Either God exists, in which case His/Her laws would be the only thing that matters; or there is no God, in which case religion would have no place in voting for a president.
Since no once can show that there is a GOd; and given that billions believe in a variety of Gods (thereby confirming that belief is not sufficient proof), my option is safer.
I apologize if my reference came across as hateful, it was not my intention. Though an Atheist I strongly defend the right of the individual to believe what they want as long it doesnt include intolerance.
My reference to 'religious rubbish' reflects my belief that religious belief should not influence voting. Knowing a persons religion tells you noting about the person: labeling oneself a Christian does not guarantee Christian behaviour.
But relax, I am not an American, so I will not be voting. And though a liberal, I think Romney is probably not the worse choice.
Thank you. Sadly, there are far too many posts on here that are coming across as hateful and/or intolerant... and it's coming from people on both sides.
I appreciate that you believe in freedom of religion/belief, but I would caution you on the wording "...as long as it doesn't include intolerance". Intolerance is defined differently by different people... the gay lobby characterizes Christians/Jews/Muslims as "intolerant" and as such justify many egregious attacks (literally: vandalism, violence, death and injury threats). I would argue that those actions are themselves intolerant, and hence they are being hypocritical. The problem with saying "belief can't include intolerance" is that the definition of intolerance has proven to be subjective in real-world application.
My personal opinion is that individual belief may include "intolerance", *PROVIDED* that intolerance is not being enforced through law. Many would characterize my views on homosexual marriage as "intolerant", yet I do not wish to impose those views through the law (I think the government should get out of marriage entirely). You want to find a church that will marry a man to another man? Knock yourself out. All I ask is the freedom to attend a church that teaches what I read in the Bible, which is that while we are supposed to love and reach out, we are not supposed to indulge sinful lifestyle choices such as homosexuality (same goes for many other vices and behaviours). I sin regularly in a variety of ways... but the church does not (and should not) accommodate and accept those behaviours. They aren't being intolerant, they're being obedient to God's Word.
All I want is the freedom to believe what I believe, and to evangelize as I am commanded. Freedom of religion and freedom of speech. You are free to believe what you want, and to argue with me or preach your point of view as well.
For religious views influencing electoral decisions, it is not rational to command people to divorce their religion and morality from their voting habits. However, we can (and should) expect religious influences to be tempered by rational thought. For example, I have no problem voting for Romney, regardless of the fact I am an evangelical, and he is a Mormon. Do I disagree with his theology? In a number of ways, yes. But I will vote for him because his policy decisions and family values (generally) align with my own, hence I think he will be a capable leader. I don't agree with all of Romney's policy statements, but between he and Obama, Mr. Romney is by far the better of the two. In this decision-making process my Christianity has influenced my electoral decisions without causing me to become irrational. Hence I do not believe it should be a requirement to separate religious influence from voting habits...
I do think there should be a higher standard for voters to educate themselves, however. I have no idea how such a requirement would be implemented, but we don't need shallow sheeple voters who go for the guy with the catchiest 30-second TV ad or website Flash animation. We need more people who look at the substantive policy positions of the candidates, consider the impacts to the health of the nation's economy, consider the impacts to size/scope of government, consider the impacts to Constitutional rights, and consider the lessons of history.
We probably agree on a lot more than we disagree. As someone raised in a strong Christian tradition, I can identify with most of what you say. My mother advocated: love the sinner hate the sin. And I accept that as each person's right.
When I referred to intolerance, I was referring to the unwillingness to accept another's point of view as as valid (if unacceptable).
I would reject all acts of violence (whether physical or implied). But I understand that certain people who feel they are part of an oppressed minority will sometimes indulge in an irrational act. I dont condone it but I understand it.
What would I do if I was living in Palestine with no rights, no prospect of a job, no hope for my kids future? I dont know. I am just fortunate to have been born the way I am in the place I am. Others are not so fortunate, but that does not make them lesser in any way.
unnecessary university.
It probably wasn't necessary, but the tone provided a nice contrast to the amateurish speech Obama gave to the female university on the same day. There is an undertone of negativity and despair that I think is wearing thin at this point, especially as stagnant as the economy has become. Obama's philosophizing seems more and more irrelevant as the soothing words are drowned out by a chaotic reality.
www.fiscalwars.wordpress.com
I had a good laugh at his phrasing here: "the female university." Obama's speech was given at Barnard College, part of Columbia University. As opposed to Liberty University, part of the religious empire created by Jerry Falwell. Republicans really do have some strangely deep seated issues with women it seems.
I specified "female" A) because it is a women's college and B) because he talked to them about fashion and how they look in the workplace, silliness when compared to the situation we are in. It also seemed demeaning to women in my opinion. Would he be talking to a men's college about their apparel? Maybe he is the one with the issues.
My cousin attends Liberty and she is one of the most well-rounded, intelligent, independent-minded women I know. You sure paint with a broad brush for someone who - I'm quite sure - fancies themselves a tolerant beacon of enlightenment. I'm agnostic but I would prefer the company of a polite religious person than a nasty little bigot any day.
I don't really fancy myself as a tolerant beacon of anything - as a Democrat I feel we've been far too "tolerant" of Jerry Falwell's baleful cultural legacy. If my disgust for the Christian right makes me a nasty little bigot, I suppose I'll be relegated to associating with the terribly demeaned "female university" graduates of Columbia, as Liberty has proven itself quite intolerant of Democrats over the past few years. Too bad about all the polite religious company I'll miss.
I'm not a member of the Christian right, and I don't agree with them, but exactly what is this negative cultural legacy of Jerry Falwell? Liberty University has not proven itself as intolerant in any way. This is just made up nonsense on the part of liberals, who attempt to demonize any point of view different from theirs. As stout77 pointed out - your position is quite intolerant of others.
I'm very much intolerant, again I can't dispute that. As far as Liberty University goes, search for "Liberty University Democratic Club" for information on how they revoked a student group's charter based on the positions of the Democratic party. Pretty tolerant stuff.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/22/AR200905...
an observation...
It is odd that when discussing the "moderate vote" in the upcomming election we frequently include anyone not an idealogue on the left or right. Perhaps, the more appropriote convention for the moderates would be the sensibles?
I sit here scratching my head trying to figure out why you crazy people, well some of you anyway, spend so much time stalking Gov. Romney, checking every breath he breathes, every word he speaks, for what? So that you can get your fix of anger and hate and misery? Why do you punish yourselves so? People, there are so many other more pleasant, fun, uplifting and beneficial activities you can involve yourselves with. Can you honestly say you're better off after reading about MR (knowing that just the mention of his name makes you want to throw-up) than you were 3.5 years ago ... I mean 5 minutes ago, when you first started your stalking expedition?
Do you realize that our comments really aren't moving the earth, so why do we kid ourselves that they are? No-one really cares, but I don't feel too bad that out of 24 hours today, I'm hoping to limit my precious time on this useless pursuit to just 10 minutes, which leaves me just 2 minutes now to get outta here.
Oh, almost forgot - GREAT SPEECH, MITT.
They're the media. Their job is to, like, report on the people running for President, ya know?
I heard he is running for office. That's the only reason that I'm interested.
I heard a rumor that there might be an election at some point in time in the near to middling future where we'll collectively vote on who to put in charge of the world's single most influential nation.
I'm sorry if you think that those of us -- regardless of how we may vote come the time -- who are paying attention to the issues and probable outcomes are "stalking anyone." We'll all try to be a little less annoying to you while we're at it over here. kthanx.
Mitt Romney i don't exactly like you but dont worry Obama has lost all the evangelicals, he has lost the election.
When did Obama ever have the evangelicals?