EVEN in a grouping as fractious as the euro zone, tonight's falling-out was remarkable. Jean-Claude Juncker, who presides over the zone's finance ministers, lashed out at the many figures who have more or less openly threatened Greece with expulsion from the euro if it does not abide by its programme of economic reforms and austerity measures.
With Greece in deep political turmoil (some are even talking apocalyptically of civil war) after voters backed an incoherent constellation of anti-austerity parties, European central bankers and finance ministers have been warning it that its departure from the euro is inevitable if it does not abide by the terms of its bail-out.
One of the bluntest warnings came from the president of the European Commission, José Manuel Barroso, who told Italy's SkyTG24: “If a member of a club does not respect the rules, it's better that it leaves the club—and this is true for any organisation or institution or any project.”
Mr Juncker, who is also Luxembourg's prime minister, was having none of this. Speaking at the official press conference at the end of a five-hour meeting of euro-zone finance ministers (the "euro group"), he let rip:
I made it perfectly clear that nobody was mentioning an exit of Greece from the euro area. I am strongly against. We are 17 member-states being co-owners of our common currency. I don't envisage, not even for one second, Greece leaving the euro area. This is nonsense, this is propaganda.
We have to respect Greek democracy. I'm against this way of dealing with Greece, [which consists] in provoking the Greek public opinion and giving advice and indications to the Greek sovereign. Greece has voted, we have to take into account the result. We do hope that a government will be formed in the next coming days or weeks and then we have to deal with that government. We don't have to lecture Greece.
But the Greek public, the Greek citizens, have to know that we agreed on a programme and this programme has to be implemented. But I don't like the way of dealing with Greece, those that are threatening Greece day after day. This is not the way of dealing with partners, colleagues and friends and citizens in the European Union.
Mr Juncker's comments are all the more striking given that, just next to him, Olli Rehn, the Finnish commissioner for economic and monetary affairs, delivered the now-standard warning to Greece about the danger of rejecting the bail-out conditions set by the EU and IMF:
The EU-IMF programme is a very substantial expression of solidarity and support for Greece by the other 16 euro-area member-states. It is in fact a solidarity pact between the other 16 euro-area member-states and Greece, between the 16 parliaments and the Greek parliament. This is what Europe is about. But solidarity is a two-way street. It is a fact that calls for respect of commitments both by the 16 euro-area member-states and also by Greece and its government and parliament. Without a Greek commitment this solidarity pact won't work, and this is the responsibility of Greek politicians in this very critical juncture. Hence the future of Greece and the welfare of its citizens lie more than ever on the shoulders of Greek politicians to keep their part of the solidarity pact.
One might conclude that Mr Juncker and Mr Rehn were playing good-cop, bad-cop with Greece. More likely, their comments reflect two factors. The first is that Mr Juncker feels free to speak out because he will soon step down as the group's president (he recently criticised the behaviour of France and Germany). The second is that the euro zone is deeply divided over how to deal with the insubordination of Greek voters—and whether it can withstand the shock of a Greek departure from the currency union. Mr Juncker left open the possibility of renegotiating the Greek package “in exceptional circumstances”, but only once a new Greek government had been formed and had accepted the reform programme.
Officials such as Mr Rehn argue that, two years into the debt crisis, the euro zone is more prepared than ever for what is now known as “Grexit”, having raised its firewalls and started recapitalising vulnerable banks. The manifest fear in the markets, though, suggests that investors are far from convinced about the robustness of the system.
The signs are that nobody really wants a bust-up. Greek opinion polls suggest three-quarters of Greeks want to remain in the euro. And the euro zone can hardly relish the prospect of a Greek default and exit so soon after it agreed to a second bail-out for the country in March. Klaus Regling, head of the euro zone's rescue fund, the European Financial Stability Facility, said the euro zone has lent Greece €108 billion ($139 billion) in the past two months alone.
At the very least, euro-zone countries will want to avoid a break-up before July 1st, when the more powerful permanent rescue fund, the European Stability Mechanism, comes into force. German sources said this could be used to recapitalise fragile Spanish banks as a means of preventing the spread of contagion. Intriguingly, last night Mr Juncker said that €1 billion that had been withheld from the latest tranche of bail-out money to Greece in recent days would, after all, be paid out.
Greek politicians seem to have convinced themselves that the euro zone is bluffing about ejecting their country. But Germany and others are determined to disabuse them. The recent menaces seem designed to achieve two goals: to exert pressure on Greeks to support more mainstream parties in a likely second election, and to prepare markets for the likelihood of Greece's departure if radicals are returned.
For now, attention turns to tonight's much-awaited meeting in Berlin between the new French president, François Hollande, and Angela Merkel, the German chancellor. The discussion will focus on Mr Hollande's call for a greater emphasis on stimulating growth (see my columns, here and here). But against a sharpening tone, his precise demands remain unclear. German ministers are worried he will press for a big stimulus, as well as for the mutualisation of debt through Eurobonds—as endorsed by a committee of the European Parliament.
Despite much talk of growth, on substance Mr Hollande did not seem to get much support from the euro group; if anything, he may have to embark on austerity himself. Though Mr Juncker said Europe needs a thorough debate on growth, he read out a statement from ministers declaring that the current strategy for fiscal consolidation (ie, austerity) “remains appropriate”. Ministers praised two other rescued countries, Ireland and Portugal, for remaining “on track” with their adjustment programmes. And they were particularly effusive towards the Netherlands, whose parliament adopted a belt-tightening budget even after the government had fallen.
There was no sign of expected proposals from the European Commission to extend deadlines for some countries to reach their deficit targets. Nor did there seem to be much support for an Italian idea of excluding from the calculation of deficit targets some spending on “investment”.
One issue Mr Hollande and Mrs Merkel will have to discuss is who should replace Mr Juncker as head of the euro group. The frontrunner is Wolfgang Schäuble, the German finance minister. But Mr Hollande may have misgivings about having a prominent German take over the job. After his performance tonight, Mr Juncker seems to have killed off the idea, favoured by some, that he would be asked to stay on.
(Picture credit: AFP)



Readers' comments
The Economist welcomes your views. Please stay on topic and be respectful of other readers. Review our comments policy.
Sort:
input this URL:
( http://www.b2cstore.us/ )
you can find many cheap and high stuff
Believe you will love it.
WE ACCEPT CREDIT CARD /WESTERN UNION PAYMENT
YOU MUST NOT MISS IT!!!
------- http://www.b2cstore.us/ -----
An organization is a strong as its weakest link. If Greece exits, it will be the start of the union's fall. Spain is not in very good condition now and may follow the fate of Greece. It's a time of great tribulation and so each member should exalt one another.
Best regards,
Belinda , Nextpay.com
I guess this is the revenge of Troy. After all that Trojan Horse stuff and other duplicity and mendacity over the years, the Greeks have become too expensive to pander to, by the rest of Europe. They are best as poor relatives, neither heard from nor seen, and too far away to visit, but fondly remembered nonetheless. I guess they thought that if they could make up The Iliad, they could do the same thing with the country's accounting! Well, now they have The Odyssey !
I have every year made resolution. I will not smoke this year. But the year passes so fast so I make another one and another one then I throw my diary in the fire. I already have a cell-phone that tells me what to do when. President Obama Wednesday called upon Congress to take action on the “To Do List” of small business legislation. Ahead of National Small Business week, the president also held a roundtable discussion on his proposed legislation with U.S. entrepreneurs and Small Business Administrator and president Karen Mills. Among the items in Obama’s proposal is legislation that would give companies a 20% tax credit for moving overseas operations back to the U.S., according to a White House release. The president is also asking Congress to give a 10% income tax credit to businesses that either create new jobs or increase wages in 2012, and to extend 100% expensing throughout the year for all businesses. The White House said the proposal will help 2 million ‘real’ small businesses and focus on middle-class workers, because the proposed credits do not apply to wages above $110,100. The National Economic Council also released a report Wednesday entitled “Moving America’s Small Businesses & Entrepreneurs Forward,” highlighting initiatives put in place so far during the Obama administration. “To help them expand and hire, the president has signed a total of 18 tax cuts for small businesses, from greater expensing to the president’s signature call to eliminate capital gains taxes on investments in small businesses,” the report states. “The president has also established two new small business lending funds and expanded Small Business Administration lending programs, which have hit an all-time record.” The report states the president has invested more than $4 billion in 332 banks and community development loan funds through the new Small Business Lending Fund. Most business owners assume that their staff will implement their strategies like good soldiers. They forget that almost every army has suffered from “fragging”-- grunts actually shooting their own generals in the back. Assuming and relying on good soldier ship is, like all assumptions, dangerous. Sales people often offer discounts before they should--or when they shouldn't at all. They do not get the price that a customer is willing to pay because, in their minds, low price is the only tool they have to close the sale. They so fear losing a sale because of price; they negotiate privately with themselves and come in low. Instead of really selling value, they take the approach requiring little thought or skill and sell on price. They will throw away your business’ profit easily, anytime there’s opportunity to do so. If you depend on your sales staff to safeguard your profits on their own, you are doomed. You might think that these are disgruntled employees. Occasionally that is true. However, in most cases it is not. They're not trying to hurt their employers. It is far more likely that they actually think they are helping and doing the right thing. In other words, not only do they not know that what they are doing is wrong, they think it is right. Often, the staff feels the prices you’re charging are too high, so discounting if they can or giving away free goods seems fair, just and appropriate to them. I thank you Firozali A.Mulla DBA
We agree to everything but we have no cash now .We are looking for this and as we find this, asap, we will let you know, believe us you will be the first to know you cheque is mail. Leaders of the Group of Eight (G8) nations have stressed that bolstering economic growth and job creation was critical to the global economic recovery. "The global economic recovery shows signs of promise, but significant headwinds persist," the G8leaders said in a statement on the global economy, adding that "our imperative is to promote growth and jobs." "We welcome the ongoing discussion in Europe on how to generate growth, while maintaining a firm commitment to implement fiscal consolidation to be assessed on a structural basis," said the statement released after the leaders from the major economies discussed the global economic issues at Camp David in Maryland, US. "We agree on the importance of a strong and cohesive eurozone for global stability and recovery, and we affirm our interest in Greece remaining in the eurozone while respecting its commitments," Xinhua quoted the statement as saying. Leaders of Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and the US are attending the two-day summit which began Saturday. I thank you Firozali A.Mulla DBA
Firo, "implement fiscal consolidation" can only mean one thing...Austerity. No one in their right mind is preparing to `splash the cash` on wild `growth`plans in the face of such uncertainty. The German approach is correct, & US/UK etc. will follow as they take whatever blows affect their markets & currencies & plan for a future recovery based on known risks versus opportunities. It appears obvious that Greece and possibly Spain will leave the EZ because no other Nation is willing or able to carry their whole debt, & Germany will vacate the Fiscal Union for the opposing reason.
Greek membership was based on false economic credentials.
Nobody trust Greek's with Greeks you can not do business and Greece has no real economy.
Greeks lives in dreams & shadows of past philosophers /They don't like to pay tax & most Greeks lives in overseas because luck of real business activities with no natural resources.
Exit of Greece should be encouraged & should be test case for other non performing members with economy like Greece would be beneficial for Euro.
I agree with you. Greece needs a shock therapy.
Barroso obviously has a point about being a member of a club, and abiding by the rules, so presumably unless he wishes to be regarded as a racist bigot, he will be instructing that the EU also gets rid of other member countries that have broken the EU rules; how about getting rid of France and Germany for a start Barroso?
Of course Barroso would not do that as he realises his superb salary depends on the EU remaining to rule.
Dracula is replicated for export to Greece.
So Greece will exit soon.
Who will be the very next?
Spain?
No, it's not Greece to exit.
IMO, ECB will go away first, since it's a gun without bullet. Secondly, the eurozone/EU will go, since they are entities without power.
Greece is always Greece, Spain is always Spain. But ECB can even go bankcrupt.
Impossible not to notice the "desire" in the british press that the Euro somehow fails...
Perfidious Albion, anyone ?
Anyway, the Euro keeps going notwithstanding all the predictions(made since the 90,s !!??) about his eventual and inevitable demise.
UK economy is in much worse shape than Germany's. If the Euro is all that bad and the pound so good, how do you explain this ?
Can any of the so called euro-sceptics brits explain this ?
Actually I don't think the British who were lobbying for a eurozone demise are influential in the British political scene any longer.
I think they've finally realised the City is probably the most affected by market volatility caused by all this mess , rather the opposite effect of what I thikn they believed would happen.
I think it is in Britain's interest right now that the euro doesn't break. And in everyone else's
This has been debated here. Think forex. Someone made an estimate of how much the City would lose some time before, and it's quite a huge sum.
The point here, and again we're going round in circles, is how to find compromise between the 17 nations that use the euro as legal tender. This compromise seems to have been found somewhat, give or take some details. You could tell me it's all in the details, and it probably is, but this crisis has brought the 17 nations together more than people would have thought was possible 4-5 years ago. That's one of the good things coming out of this crisis.
The odd one out perhaps being Greece right now, hope the Greeks don't mind my saying this , but it is my interpretation of things.
Up for the Greeks now to clarify their stance, and that's what I think the elections they'll have in a few week's time are for.
This kind of childish scapegoating seems alarmingly common across the eurozone.
Time to wake up.
'UK economy is in much worse shape than Germany's. If the Euro is all that bad and the pound so good, how do you explain this ?'
This comparison is particularly insightful, given that Germany is the only country in the eurozone. Anyone remember when Charlemagne used to attract intelligent comments?
Greece will vote for a Euro supporting Gov at the end, but it will be tight, I have just seen on Greek TV that Syriza/ Tsipras is shown to come first in the polls.
But the fear of losing the euro is strong . If Greece returns to the drachma , it will go back to poverty level not felt since the civil war after WW2. This , the out of the Euro lot fail to say openly..that the people who vote for them are the ones who will suffer most.
Tsipras has some fair points and tells some truths , and it is good he is shaking up the corrupt and defunct system , but he cannot form a Gov.
Schaeuble will not let one chance to the Greeks, check what he says there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDBzJRQLZN8&feature=related
punish the Greeks !
Th EU is a paleolithic racist and religious club for forlorn ex-colonialists. The British keep such clubs exclusively for the Neanderthal gerontocracy of Colonel Blimps.
isnt' it a baffling irony that so much Greek money is still daily being transfered from Greek Banks to German Banks in Germany , let alone that a large number of Greeks are now buying properties in Germany ..?
the richs have no sense of dignity
The question remains without answer.
Keep trying dear eurosceptic brits...
"This kind of childish scapegoating..."
As a matter of fact, they adopted the euro because their intelligence is limited to that of children.
CHRIST,You`re an expert on everything! Even us Brits,& the inner thoughts of the FTSE. Any chance that you can put that fabulous brain of yours to work on sorting out your own Country`s(Poortugals)problems?, I reckon you could have it all remedied by Thursday,then have Greece & Spain well on the road to recovery by the week-end. Who needs Georgie Osbourne when we`ve got good old Pedro the Fisherman.
P.S. Your finger is still inadvertently twitching over your own `Reco`button to often, shows a deep-seated addiction to uncontrollable self-abuse.Try getting out & about now & then!
World stocks erased the year's gains on Friday as investors fled risky investments for safe-haven assets on concerns about the euro zone's deepening debt woes, while US stocks lost ground after the debut of Facebook's failed to ignite optimism. Brent crude closed at its lowest in 2012 as the euro zone crisis raised fears of a global slowdown that could dent oil demand, while German borrowing costs hit record lows. World stocks, as measured by the MSCI index, dropped 1.1 per cent and gave up all of their gains for the year to date fueled by the European Central Bank's injection of more than 1 trillion euros. It was a sixth day of losses for the index, which is now down 0.4 per cent for the year. Riskier assets were all heading for big weekly losses. Investors were unnerved by a ratings downgrade of 16 Spanish banks by Moody's Investors Service, which deepened worries about the euro zone contagion. But market speculation that regulators could reinstate a ban on short selling of financial stocks sparked a rally in banking shares, with Spain's Banco Santander up 3 per cent. US-listed shares of Banco Santander rose 3.6 per cent to end at $5.76. Spain's banks, saddled with bad loans after a property boom collapsed, may need a bailout that would strain Madrid's already stretched finances and possibly require an international bailout regardless of any contagion threat from Greece. . "Love your enemies; After all, You made them.”. Firozali A.Mulla DBA
This is a good time for short sellers!
Trillions of dollars' worth of stock values were wiped out after the Greek election.
Thanks, Greece!
PS: I wonder how much damage the looming Spanish crisis will cause?
According to the Hamburg newspaper "Die Welt", the printing firm of De la Rue & Co is already printing the new Greek banknotes.
Are they working overtime? I hope so.
Yep, And apparently had to pay the Royal Mint up front!
Link to the article?
Perhaps printing the money just in case?
Poor Greece!
She even has to import Dracula from Britain.
Greece doesn't want to abide by the bail-out rules. No surprise there, they have flouted every other rule designed to make the Euro work.(in its own flawed way)
But, they want to stay in the Euro because they think they will get another free ride from the 'Dickheads' in Brussels, who are running the "EC must be big" policy, even if this does mean ruining the European model.
HISTORY will return. Delay is making all matters worse, and conflict is fast arriving on the horizon. Its not going to take much either.
This saga will never end. Greece will never exit the Euro-zone, because the weak-willed liberals running the European governments(Germany can't fend them all off) and their equally weak-willed citizens who only know how to scream like little girls at the first hint of any hardship will never allow this to happen. They'll just keep borrowing to all eternity until they all sink together to the bottom of the mediterranean sea.
1Pers. A precise & accurate analogy of current state of play ref. Med.States. I think it applies to all of the `Two-bob Holiday Resorts` in that area (Spent,Itchilly,Grease & Poortugal). Do you think there`s any likelihood that one day soon they`ll try to earn a living instead of poncing off the rest of Europe?
Lesson 1: Portugal is not in the Mediterranean
Lesson 2: it's not this ` sign you want use use but this one '
So where you from, really. Let us know soon. I'm sure most Brits in here don't like you pretending you're one of them, because you're rather ridiculous.
Spill the beans
Pedro, Yep they just missed the Med. by inches, tell them to swim a bit harder then my favourite Waiters can serve grilled Sardines & chilled Vinho Verde on the Costas. Honest,you personally well & truly belong in the Med.!
Greece's main problem is the completely dysfunctional state administration. Current Greek state simply cannot carry out the functions that are expected from an EU member country. Most people elsewhere simply cannot imagine, how rotten one government system may be.
If Greece wants to move forward, it should use plenty of dynamite and big bulldozers to destroy the old system and build a new one from the scratch. It is something Baltic countries had to do 20 years ago, as they had no other choice.
The Greeks however seem to think that replacing thieves and crooks (ND, Pasok) with Communists, Nazis and simply lunatics will somehow make their life better. If they do that, they fully deserve the consequences.
"something Baltic countries had to do 20 years ago, as they had no other choice".
What on earth are you on about?
The Baltic countries like other ex-communist countries have exactly the same band of hardened professional mediocre politically illiterate cynical sectarian manipulators as in communist times.
They worked their way up through party ranks like Ansip,- Head of the Organisational Department of the Tartu District Committee of the Estonian Communist Party from 1986–1988.
Nothing is new, all are as corrupt and as self serving as the governments they were supposed to replace,-
with one exception they are nationalists with in many cases neo-fascist tendencies, actively promote xenophobia and a racist interpretation of what constitutes an EU nation.
I would prefer a greek fascist any day to a Baltic one, at least they have some idea of culture, and fun in the sun.
Firstly, you should stay on topic, which happens to be Greece, not Estonia. Secondly, please complete the 6th grade before commenting at The Economist, otherwise you make a complete fool out of yourself. Your interpretation of terms "racism", "fascist", "xenophobia" and so on, is amusing, to say the least.
I would also suggest to familiarize yourself with the recent speeches/articles of the leaders of KKE and Chrysi Avgi, then you would understand, what I meant by Communists and Nazis.
You haven't a clue have you.
First of all there is nothing called "6th grade" in the UK.
But you wouldn't know that.
Secondly extreme right wing rhetoric is nothing new.
You clearly forget that Jean-Marie Le Pen came second to Chirac in a presidential election this century and his daughter polls close to 20%, enough to prevent Sarkozy being re-elected....ah you will say, but that is "NOT ON TOPIC".
Yawn!
If you make a careful study of the TWO countries that do NOT give automatic citizenship on the basis of a language test, (Latvia and Estonia) both of which have annual parades glorifying the work of Waffen SS, then you can clearly see the tendencies at work, quite apart from their efficient language inspectorate Gestapo, which can ensure innocent people are excluded from their jobs.
Indeed if you study in some depth the political policies of Andrus Ansip's government, you will find they are almost identical to those of Le Pen.
"Irrelevant" again you drone.
Well it's not because it gives the complete lie to your claims that Baltic states rebuilt the governments from scratch.
They didn't, they are every bit as neo-nazi & populist as the the extremist elements now are in Greece.
Everyone passing language test in Estonia is eligible for citizenship. About 2/3 of Russian speaking people in Estonia are now Estonian citizens (up from less than 10% in 1991), 1/4 have opted for Russian citizenship. This leaves about 10% (maybe 15%) of Russians without citizenship, many of them are btw happy with the status, as it uniquely gives them free movement both in EU and Russia.
However, only a complete fool would not understand the source for über-sensitivity of Estonian side in these matters. Language laws, as well as citizenship laws are a today under serious discussion, and they will most likely be eased a lot. As they say, time heals the wounds and mindset is changing.
As for WaffenSS, I am sick of the biased propaganda from the likes of you. Read Timothy Snyder's "Bloodlands" (for example) to get an idea of the situation and available choices for many Eastern European nations in WWII.
What has this got to do with the discussion topic, I don't know. I did not start it.
AH, I knew faced with facts you would respond with garbage how comfortable minorities are in the Baltic states, how easy it is for them to travel, and then of course you would avoid mentioning the front national in France altogether....and how sensitive the poor darling Estonians are about Russia, and how they surely fought on the right side decades ago.
Yet, when challenged about the shaky ground of whether or not Eastern Europeans as a whole have worked out decent government for themselves you get complete amnesia about the mess in Hungary, the current messy scrap between Poland and Lithuania and so many issues including that of Romania and it's fatal securitate file heritage, and the massive gangster like corruption in Bulgaria.
The fact is, gangsterism, corruption and political extremism are far from dead in ex-communist Europe, and all you do is carry on denying it, then once the subject gets a bit too "hot" you have to start ad hominem...using terms like "fools" "6th grader" education and other wild epithets.
I really feel sorry for people like you, who are so unable to face reality that you resort to insults to try to score points!
I did not mention National Front, as a I am not familiar with the situation in France (unlike Greece and the Baltics). I do not take stands in subjects I don't know.
However, by putting Estonia, Lithuania/Poland, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria into one basket, YOU do demonstrate that have really no idea, what you are talking about. These are very different situations.
And, I have never claimed that there are no problems in E Europe. There sure are, and Hungary's seem to me quite ominous - especially concerning freedom of press and separation of powers.
However, after all this, you have still said nothing about Greeks' inability to build a functioning state (my original post).
I stand by my claim that they could learn plenty from Estonia (for example). It took 5 minutes to fill and file my 2012 taxes and in 11 days the excess tax was on my account. Greece's tax authority is still processing 2009 files...
Well being as I happen to know all the countries I mentioned and have stayed considerable time in them, and you know nothing about first class Europe, such as France, then I would say your ability to judge between a micro economy which has had massive doses of EU subsidy with very little to show for it, and a larger wealthy country like Greece is somewhat limited.
Well done for trying by the way!
You can compare tiny Estonia with Greece.
The only thng they have in common is the nickname.
"Athens on the Baltic" or straight "bankrupt Athens".
Unfortunately Ansip declared he would make Estonia one of the 5 richest countries in Europe,a la Luxembourg, while you the greeks were spending colossal amounts of cheap borrowed money.
All pathetic really.
What Ansip and the greek leaders mostly missed is that Luxembourg got where they are today by HARD WORK and good management.
Perhaps you have never been to Luxembourg?
It's not got the Glitz and Glamour of your Maria Callas but at least it's got the highest GDP per head of all the EU.
And your point is...?
You dare to criticise someone else ad hominem, yet you can't understand the clear salient points of an argument??
So what IQ do you have?
Just to spell it out.
You get rich by HARD WORK.
You know that unpopular idea the Germans, Swedes, French, Luxembourgers and the Swiss do, then produce something useful that sells.
You don't get rich by talking about it or swallowing huge subsidies from the EU or IMF or by burning up other people's money, speculating and calling it progress....
Ie. the PIGS, and all the Baltic states.
I've done my part of hard work, thank you. Most of these "huge" subsidies end up in Germany,Sweden etc, for "something useful that sells". Even subsidies stolen by Greek officials mostly end up in Germany and France as BMWs and luxury goods. So in effect, you're subsidizing your own exports and increase purchasing power in the target markets (just like US did with France,Germany,Netherlands with Marshall Plan).
But what is your proposal? Cut EU in half, with first-class and second-class countries (your definitions)?
NOT GREXIT -EUROEXIT
Once Greece exits, within a month, five more euro countries will exit.
U.S. and London Real Estate Values in international cities will skyrocket as safe havens.
Warmest,
Richard Michael Abraham
Founder
The REDI Foundation
www.redii.org
hahah this one had me laugh out loud... riiiiight...
And your not defending the general interests of 'some special people' of course, with your jedi foundation and all that.
Puh-lease, gents I am not asking you to be a rude bastich like me, but at least have the decency of being serious.
on a more serious note:
e international press keeps trying to 'pretend' contagion (such a silly word to use in a financial context) will only occur to the Portugals and Spains and Irelands, of this world but it will not. As usual, people even if told not to panic WILL panic. I expect the euro to come down a bit more, and stock markets will plunge down to 2000 levels across the globe. Again London and NY will be thoroughly affected, Frankfurt probably less than these two.
I don't say this lightheartedly.
Regards.
Hope you don't mind my little jeux-de-mots.
YEP RICH., The EZ is a tottering `House of Cards`, both in the literal & personality sense. We`re already witnessing the movement into $`s & £`s by currency flow, & soon to see the same interest in the FTSE & DOW S/E`s. Property for both Comm. & Resid. transfers are enjoying new heat in the US/UK Capitals.
In times of panic & stress you cannot beat the Old Reliables.
Yes Frostya1 - And It Looks Like a GermExit
Good chance that Germany will leave the Eurozone and shock the World.
Money (Preservation Capital) from every collapsed Euro Country would flood into real estate in every international Western city.
Real Estate Developers now should be planning luxury residential real estate projects in London, New York, Miami, Toronto and San Francisco, to name a few cities.
Warmest,
Richard Michael Abraham
Founder
The REDI Foundation
www.redii.org
Rich, Spanish & Greek euros are now flooding into our Capital for acquisition of Comm. property investments (Buy to Rent). Hot on the earlier flush of French coinage aimed @ the residential enclaves in Knightsbridge & Kensington,known locally as the `Gateux Ghetto`, are we adding an`Ouzo Owners Club` & `Sangria Settlement`to the panic influx of distressed cash experienced by Deutsche Investment Banks?
Me? I`m buying property in Spain @ `knock-down` values, but on a deferred payment basis,then sit on it till everything quietens down, there`s a med.term peseta to be made!
If the Greeks bail, they'll never get to do this: http://youtu.be/KqVNv-rzxcA
To the person who claimed modern banking had been invented in Tuscany. I do apologise for not remembering your pen name, and also for using Shokai to reply to you.
I just wanted to give you some sources.
Modern banking very likely started with Merchant-Bankers from Genoa (some from Florence but in lesser numbers) in Lisbon. They were particularly active in financing commerce and trade to the newly found islands of Madeira, Cape Verde, etc. So much so that the crown awarded the captaincy of the island of Madeira to an Italian merchant, Bartolome Pallastreli (primeiro Capitão-donatário da Ilha da Madeira), this is the man who gave birth to the Portuguese surname Perestrelo. Later these merchant-bankers were very active in financing expeditions to India, Brazil, and other parts of Asia. Columbus had something to do with all this. We're talking 15th century here. I consider this modern banking because it was 'global'
Sources:
- Domenico Gioffrè, «Génova, Relações de Portugal e», Dicionário de História de Portugal, vol. III, Porto, imp. 1992, pp. 114-116.
don't think it's available in English.
Regards.
in the pre-angela merkel era, the germans had to swallon bitter pills for austerity,,,historic cuts in welfare and jobloss benefits, opening of non-taxable mini jobs of 400 euros, etc. it saw the era of germans taking 2-3 jobs to meet ends meet. the sacrifices for austerity has led to growth. simple economics, do not spend what you do not have. compare a train driver in greece who earns a net pay of 5,000 euros to a german train driver who earns a net pay of less than 2,000 euros. before the greek crises, i was in athens and saw how the greeks gobble up signature clothes etc. their shopping mile are so crowded with local consumers. it made my jaw literally dropped. no german shopping mile would be awashed with local consumers! who is to be blamed? and still a good number of germans helping its neighbors is a social responsibility.
Time for the Greeks to be more grateful to Germany.
Even the US press starts to see this now:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2115038-1,00.html
Greece is loosing their allies one by one....
As a Greek I must state that the majority of us (80%) want the euro and to be a part of Europe, our vote was more against the 2 major parties who have ruled the roost over the past 40 years or more and these elections were the first real opportunity to voice this. There were more parties to represent a wide range of beliefs, too many in fact to be able to gather a strong backing for those who have been truly downtrodden by the backhanders and freeloaders,and so Syriza has taken a new hold, but with 17% of the vote cannot be said to represent the majority of the voting population. A referendum would clarify our position with Europe and an election would allow us to try to get a government that will rule with a conscience. We need partners to work with and ally ourselves with to maintain the lifestyle we have become used to and we can only benefit from a more transparent government and bureaucracy.